JoAG Fancave: The Wolf of Snow Hollow (2020)

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign. [00:00:06] Speaker B: Mark here, obviously. Now this week, Corrigan is posting a Joag Fan cave, which I believe is following this very video with her and Kristen, which, as you know, is always a great time. But what I'm here to do right now is to queue up next week's episode. [00:00:21] Speaker C: Do you know what? [00:00:22] Speaker B: I can't believe it's taken us five fucking years to do this, but next week is our very first Ask Joanne. So I'm going to be sharing this video everywhere. Instagram, Discord, Facebook, all the other socials. And you get the chance, after listening to us bang on about no end of nonsense for the last five years, you get the chance to turn the tables and ask us anything that's on your mind, anything you'd like us to talk on, anything you might want to know about us, about the cast, about our views on world events. You can make it as esoteric or as personal as you like. We'll answer anything. We simply do not give a fuck. But you've got between now and next week to either post your questions for us underneath this video on any of our social feeds. And if you don't want to do any of that, if you don't want to reply to us on our socials, you can email your questions to this address. Again, nothing's off the table. Anything you'd like to hear us speak about or anything you'd like us to answer for you, Now's your chance. Next week is an Ask Joag special. And on a personal note, I hope you're managing to keep it fucking locked in over the dark months and over the Christmas fucking holidays. Whatever you're doing, whoever you're doing it with, I hope you're not on the brink of fucking killing and eating your relatives yet. Enjoy the Fan cave. We'll see you next week. Get your questions in because we cannot wait to fucking answer them. [00:01:37] Speaker C: Do you understand? [00:01:38] Speaker B: Peace. [00:01:40] Speaker A: You can hide, but you'll never escape. [00:01:46] Speaker C: Little hand says it's time to rock and roll. [00:02:00] Speaker D: Howdy, friends. Welcome back to the Joag Fan Cave. It's me, Kristen, here with Corian to discuss a very weird movie. This month's film was 2020's the Wolf of Snow Hollow, written, directed and starring Jim Cummings. And before you ask, no, not the voice of Winnie the Pooh, Jim Cum, the other one. So there's another one. The movie follows the small town police force of Snow Hollow as they are hit with a slew of super violent murders that come with a lot of blood and a lot of missing body parts. The ailing town sheriff played by the late great Robert Forster isn't up to the task. So his deeply mentally unwell son John picks up the mantle. And when I tell you that John wasn't up to the task either, that is understating things. Things start to get a little murky when all signs point to a giant wolf being behind the murders. So the question remains, are werewolves real or are people just weird? [00:02:57] Speaker A: The age old question. [00:02:59] Speaker D: Age old question. One I've asked myself many times. [00:03:04] Speaker A: It's what I think about, you know, as I'm falling asleep each night. Are werewolves real? [00:03:08] Speaker D: Are people just whenever it's a full moon and everyone's being crazy and I think, man, is it just us or is there a werewolf stalking people at night? [00:03:20] Speaker A: There's no way for us to ever fully know. [00:03:22] Speaker D: I don't think we'll ever know. I guess until I get bit by werewolf and then turn into one. And then you'll know. I'll let you know if that happens. [00:03:28] Speaker A: I appreciate that. You're welcome. If you were watching this or listening to this and you get bit by a werewolf, all we ask. [00:03:37] Speaker D: Yes, please call in. [00:03:39] Speaker A: Please call in our toll free number. [00:03:41] Speaker D: Our toll free number. 1-800-Werewolf. [00:03:44] Speaker A: Oh, I was gonna say fan cave, but. [00:03:47] Speaker D: Oh, that's probably smarter. You know what? I regret it. [00:03:51] Speaker A: We also have today, if you're watching, you already know this. We have my husband Kyo joining us here. [00:03:59] Speaker D: Not just a sleepy man. Suit Corrigan at the business center. [00:04:04] Speaker A: He's very tired. [00:04:05] Speaker C: It's only for a visual. Visual. [00:04:08] Speaker D: He's had a hard day of swimming. He's like the guy by the pool, you guys. [00:04:12] Speaker A: He's like the guy in the mighty, mighty boss tones that just dances. He's gonna sit here and on vacation. Guys. [00:04:17] Speaker C: I'm on vacation. So, you know, I'm not working too hard. [00:04:21] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:04:21] Speaker D: Thank you. Good. We wouldn't want you to. [00:04:24] Speaker C: Nobody would. Nobody would. [00:04:25] Speaker A: Tragic. [00:04:26] Speaker C: I'll just chime in once in a while and be disruptive. [00:04:30] Speaker D: I mean my favorite type of Kyo. [00:04:32] Speaker A: So what he's good at, Apologize ahead of time. But yes, we. Apparently Keo had not seen this movie, which is crazy to me. We started it and we realized this when the guy from American Vandal is in the beginning of it and he's like, oh yeah, you know, you're ready for him to die right away or whatever. And I was like, he, he just. He does not waiting for it. [00:04:56] Speaker C: He gonna die. [00:04:57] Speaker A: I looked at him, I was like, he. He doesn't die. And he was like, yeah, have I seen this? [00:05:03] Speaker C: This setup tells me he's dead. I can't wait for this guy to bite the dust. [00:05:11] Speaker A: I was like, listen, you know, I don't have a great memory for details and things. So I was like, oh, I mean, maybe I forgot, but I've seen this enough times. Yeah. [00:05:18] Speaker D: Pretty sure this is a women getting murdered movie. [00:05:22] Speaker A: Right. [00:05:22] Speaker D: Bunch of ladies dying. [00:05:23] Speaker C: He lived a long time. [00:05:25] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:05:25] Speaker C: Much longer than I expected. [00:05:27] Speaker A: Yeah. So a whole movie. As far as we know, he's still alive to this day. [00:05:32] Speaker D: Could still be alive. [00:05:33] Speaker C: There'd be like an end credit scene where he dies. [00:05:38] Speaker D: That's just. He's just really like, I'm invested in him already being dead. I already don't care about him. Why is he still walking around giving clues to the police? Basically cracking the case. [00:05:50] Speaker A: Yeah. With his thread thingy or whatever. We'll get there, obviously. But I was shocked. So we, we were watching it last night and then he fell asleep because we. Listen, we were in Portugal a week ago. We were home for three days. We're here now. Our sense of time just non existent. [00:06:13] Speaker C: You're sleeping in all the different time zones. [00:06:16] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:06:16] Speaker D: You're hitting them all. [00:06:18] Speaker A: Yeah. Just have no clue at any time. [00:06:20] Speaker C: Two hours is a commitment. [00:06:22] Speaker A: It was an hour and 28 minutes. [00:06:24] Speaker D: That was a tight 90, which it's a lot. I appreciated. [00:06:28] Speaker A: Yes. But he went back and watched it this morning. I went to the pool and he finished the movie. [00:06:34] Speaker C: Glad I did. Because I missed that one part in the middle where the thing happens. [00:06:37] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:06:37] Speaker A: Because he woke up, like when Jim Cummings was like at the door being like, could you stand up to your full height? [00:06:44] Speaker D: Yeah, yeah. You know what's funny is like, I'd forgotten. I mean, I don't know if we want to get into it now, but I'd forgotten that he. The guy was supposed to be tall. And I noticed the guy had answered the door doing that. And I was like, why are you doing that? [00:06:57] Speaker A: Well, I thought maybe like, like the door is things and you don't realize. [00:07:02] Speaker D: You don't get it. I don't clock things in the correct manner ever. [00:07:07] Speaker A: I'm like, oh, you just, you, you've seen it. You just don't make the connection. [00:07:11] Speaker D: Oh, why did they just make the doorway taller for this clearly tall man? Or it was like, then I thought, is he live in like a little house? Like a child's house? [00:07:20] Speaker A: Like, why is he Hansel and Gretel sort of situation? Yeah. [00:07:23] Speaker D: Like, because he was very clearly hunched over, like, obviously Hunched over. [00:07:28] Speaker A: Also, as a side note, your ring light keep like catching like right around your eyeballs. So it's like you have a second set of glasses on underneath your glasses. [00:07:38] Speaker D: Maybe lower side easier. [00:07:40] Speaker A: Yeah. Just spend the whole time like this. Yeah, but it just made me laugh because you started to talk and you kind of looked up to the side and then it just perfectly aligned around. Here is perfect. Yes. So we will get into discussing the Wolf of Snow Hollow. Hopefully you have all watched this flick. I also, I mentioned it on on Blue sky last night and multiple people were like, oh, my God, this movie is so good. Also, before we get into things, I would really like to read this. Review is the wrong word, but it's in the reviews on letterboxd. [00:08:19] Speaker D: Okay. [00:08:19] Speaker A: Of the Wolf of Snow Hollow. This user named Christian Ryan posted this review and I'm just going to read it to you. [00:08:29] Speaker D: Okay. [00:08:30] Speaker A: I mean, when I was a kid, my dad represented a man accused of multiple murders. And when he was acquitted of the crimes, as a show of gratitude, he took our family out to dinner at Bonanza Steakhouse. As we all sat there eating, I kept staring over at the man, wondering if he was capable of such atrocious acts. At one point, he busted me, looked up from his plate and met my gaze. He set his silverware down and adjusted himself in his chair so that he was staring directly at me. He didn't nod or smile. He didn't blink. And when I looked away for a few moments after, I could still feel him watching me. No one else seemed to notice. And after a spell, he turned back to his food. And I remember thinking matter of factly, oh, yeah, this guy totally killed those people. [00:09:19] Speaker D: That is the scariest story I've ever read. Why did his dad take his whole family to dinner with him? [00:09:26] Speaker A: I mean, his sir. Like, just because you represent someone doesn't make them your friend. [00:09:32] Speaker C: You don't need to introduce your family to them. [00:09:34] Speaker A: No. Oh, my God. Listen, I don't know if it's true, if he's just, you know, testing out his flash fiction in the, in the comment section, but I was like, look, not bad. [00:09:47] Speaker D: What a great mini story. Yeah, he puts, like, silverware down and looks at you, right? Why doesn't anybody notice that he just, like, put his silverware down? [00:09:57] Speaker A: Like, you can see this scene unfolding. Everyone at the table carrying on as you were having this moment, right? [00:10:05] Speaker D: Yeah. How old? I don't remember how old he said he was, but I'm imagining he's like. [00:10:08] Speaker A: Little, like he said. Yeah. [00:10:10] Speaker D: Or 11. [00:10:10] Speaker A: Right? Yeah, it's a. Which, like, also makes it one of those things where it's like, it could have been like, nothing like that. But that's how you remember it as a kid. [00:10:19] Speaker D: It becomes this, like, cinematic moment in your life. [00:10:23] Speaker A: Like, that guy thought he was like playing a staring contest with him. Like, oh, this is going to be cute. [00:10:28] Speaker D: And the kid's like, you're a murderer. [00:10:33] Speaker A: Straight up. The guy from Home Alone status. He's just like. So, yeah, shout out to that guy for writing an excellent little bit of creepy pasta. Creepy pasta in the letterboxd reviews. Before we get into it, we have kind of been making a habit lately of talking about a media piece that we have been into. Honestly, we kind of have two that we can. I know at this point and maybe we just won't get super into either one. But we do need to unpack a couple things here. So if you either haven't listened to or don't care about hearing about Unicorn Girl, the most insane. Oh my God, my husband has left the most. Tell me about Insane podcast. I mean, we recapped another podcast that I thought was about the heights of things a couple months ago, but no, we've gone further. Or Death by Lightning, the miniseries about James Garfield that Kristen has finally finished as I've waited for the past month for this to happen. So if you don't care about those things, I will put a timestamp in the description and you can walk on back. [00:11:54] Speaker D: But you'll be missing out. But we will be giving spoilers to both. [00:11:58] Speaker A: Yes, there will be spoilers. [00:12:00] Speaker D: Not that really Death by Lightning has a lot of spoilers. You should already know. It's the story. [00:12:04] Speaker A: Spoilers for the death of a 100. [00:12:07] Speaker D: And something years old at this point. [00:12:08] Speaker A: Yeah, that there was already a book I've been telling everyone to read for the past 15 years. [00:12:14] Speaker D: I keep telling people. [00:12:17] Speaker A: This is. This is the plus of our friendship, Kristin, is that 15 years ago I read this book and I went, please read this book. And then you read that book. [00:12:26] Speaker D: And I said, okay. I like immediately bought it. [00:12:29] Speaker A: I was like, yeah, the book being Destiny of the Republic by Candice Millard, by the way. So if you liked Death by Lightning, read that book. [00:12:39] Speaker D: Love the book. [00:12:40] Speaker A: Because honestly, what I was like, so impressed by, and I said this even before you, like actually got to watch the show, was how faithful it was to like, what actually happened for something that like, I wished that this miniseries was like double the length. It's only four episodes. Totally. But they Managed to fit, like, every major thing in it to the point where even the specific speech Garfield gives, you know, during the nomination, during the National Convention, like, is his actual speech. [00:13:14] Speaker D: Yeah, I just. The writing, because of the pacing, I guess, of, like, what they're able to do is. I mean, I feel like sometimes shows get, like, three times that. That amount of episodes, and they can't do jack shit with it. Right? But they're like, don't worry. You're giving us four. We got this. You know, and it's like, we're going to tighten it in. We're going to give you the performances of a lifetime. Everybody in this is acting as though they're, like, gunning for an Oscar. [00:13:45] Speaker A: Right? [00:13:45] Speaker D: And they should all win. [00:13:46] Speaker A: What? [00:13:47] Speaker D: I mean, I guess it's not Oscar. Golden. Emmys, Emmys, whatever. But you guys, the performances alone are worth it. Like, even, you know, if you're not familiar with the story, then. But you should know that when you're watching it, it's like, you're not. Like, you don't need to go look something up. [00:14:03] Speaker A: Like, no, this is all there. [00:14:05] Speaker D: This is real. Like, you're not like, did that happen? You're like, yes. Like, these things are happening, right? Oh, I just loved it so much. Like, I've said it a million times. It's like, my biggest thing that I keep talking about is how perfect Matthew McPheeden portrays Charles Guiteau when you read the story about him. And I feel like when I read. Because, you know, you and I both tend to read a lot of history books. I think there are certain people. Characters in history, people in history that you, like, you can kind of imagine, right? You're like, reading this, and it's like a lot of journal entries, and it's like they're trying to, you know, paint you a picture of what this person was like. And you're like, okay. I feel like I kind of get a vibe for it. And there's been very few, to me portrayals of those people that have, like, nailed it. Like, and he nails it, like, yeah, this slightly unhealth. Like, you're not. You can't quite tell he's unhinged until you start talking to him for, like, you know, like, 20 seconds. [00:15:01] Speaker A: Very charismatic. Like, initially out the gate. [00:15:04] Speaker D: Yes. Because he's got. Anyway. But then he's like, crazy eyes. And you're like, oh, no. I don't know. I just. There's something nuanced about it that was. And I'm not like a film person. You Know, I don't, like, know a lot about film or even acting. Like, sometimes when actors talk about, like, being actors, I'm like, okay, I get it. Like, you pretend to be somebody else, but I'm like, wow, this, to me, I was like, this was some good shit. [00:15:27] Speaker A: Yeah, he really. He's just as, like, wormy and weird and annoying. And one of the key elements of Charles Guiteau, when you read Death by Lightning or anything like, about him. And I love that they included at the Oneida community, specifically the thing where my community. So the community, yes, the people who make your flatware. It started as a sex cult. And he is. [00:15:53] Speaker D: Guys, it's real. When literally at work, when we're talking to my people, I was like, you guys, I want you to know that it's very real that he was in a sex. And they all were like, this stuff. I didn't know they even had those. I was like, back then, I was like, oh, yeah, they did. And this is real. [00:16:06] Speaker A: And in this sex cult, one of the things that they would do to try to keep the harmony in this group was they would have these things where they would sit around and they would say what they all were, like, hated about people. Basically. Basically Festivus, I was gonna say, it's an airing of grievances, essentially. And, you know, it would usually be like, little things about someone, like something they said that hurt you or something. They weren't cleaning up after themselves or yada, yada. And when it came to Charles Guiteau, it was like, everyone hates this guy. He's the most annoying person on earth. And another thing about this Colt was like, you were supposed to pretty much have sex if someone wanted to. You know, it was, like, kind of uncouth to say no, but no one wanted to have sex with Charles Guiteau. And he was so upset about this, and this wasn't in the movie, but that, like, he ended up then trying to, like, sort of get this place shut down. Because it was like, you know, oh, this is all this, like, sexual deviance going on and stuff here. It was really just like, nobody likes you, buddy. [00:17:13] Speaker D: Yeah, it's like his big blow up right at the end. Like, you get a piece of that, right? You don't know that he comes back and tries to, like, get revenge, essentially. But it's like that thing, like, you guys are just all the work, you know, and he's like, yeah, I didn't want to be here anyway. You know, it's like, just, you can fire me. I Quit? [00:17:27] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:17:27] Speaker D: Like a little kid being like, well, I'm taking my toys with me. And it's like, no one. Honestly, it's what we've wanted this whole time. [00:17:32] Speaker A: Yeah. Everybody won. You're only here as a favor to your dad. Like, that. That's what's going on here. [00:17:38] Speaker D: Please. [00:17:39] Speaker A: And so, yeah, he's such, like, a wormy, annoying character, but then with this delusional confidence, and I think that's like, a hard line to walk. And Matthew McFadden does it just perfectly, expertly. [00:17:54] Speaker D: Everybody. Yeah, he just. I mean, literally every time he's on the screen, I like, as annoying as Charles Guiteau was, and he's, like, very annoying in the movie. I'm like, I can't stop looking at you, even though everything you do makes. [00:18:06] Speaker A: Me furious, makes me want to smack you. [00:18:09] Speaker D: I want to punch you in the face deeply. But I'm like, I can't look away. And so. It was so well done. And I'm telling you, that shot from the church when he's sitting behind Garfield, I was like, that itself has to win some kind of award, right? It has to. It has to. It won't, but I hope it was. [00:18:27] Speaker A: It's. I think it's flown under the radar, largely. I mean, that's. It's so funny to have been looking forward to something since they announced it. I mean, years ago, many moons ago, wasn't this. Was it this one, that there was someone attached to it? Because it was. It was similar to Killers of the Flower Moon, where it was like, oh, someone's attached to doing this. And then it just, like, kept falling. [00:18:50] Speaker D: Through for, like, oh, see, I. I don't remember. I was thinking more. That always makes me think of Devil in the White City as well. [00:18:57] Speaker A: Devil in the White City, yeah. Yeah. Maybe that's getting made. [00:18:59] Speaker D: But I do think this is one that's like, there's rumors that they're gonna make it. I don't even think I knew anybody was. So maybe you read something I didn't. So I don't remember anyone being attached to it. Is more just like, hey, they're gonna make this. I was like, oh, sweet. [00:19:09] Speaker A: Yeah. And then it's like, oh, everybody wasn't looking forward to this. That's weird. So people who I know who have watched it have been like, oh, yeah, this is great. I just, like, so good. I don't think that, like, a whole bunch of people were, like, clamoring to see it. [00:19:23] Speaker D: Like, it literally is, like, such a commentary, though, still on Garfield Right. Like, right. It's this whole thing at the end where he's like, oh, do you think they'll, like. And she, like, since. She's like, oh, of course they will. And then, you know that. Oh, that moment she has with Kito, and she's like, and I lied to him. But she's like, but don't worry. No one will remember you either. And he's like. She's like, no, seriously, I'm not. I'm making sure no one remembers you. And I was like, what a queen. But it was like. [00:19:46] Speaker A: It was sad. Like, reverse Eliza. [00:19:49] Speaker D: Yeah. It was sad for me to get to the end and think, like. Because I haven't seen anybody talk about it. I'm like, oh, my God. It's, like, destined. Destined again to, like, fade into obscurity when you could have this. And it's like this, like. And I don't know if it's just because, like, understanding, like, Roscoe Conkling and the whole, like, corruptness of New York and the. I don't know, like, all of those pieces, too, to me, were, like, so interesting. But I'm like, probably not everybody cares. [00:20:24] Speaker A: Maybe not, but I tried. [00:20:26] Speaker D: Well, you don't understand, though, guys, because this is, like, super cool. And, like, you know, I'm like, let me tell you all about it. And they're like, please. [00:20:32] Speaker A: No, I think that was, like, one of the things that I thought they did. Did really well in it is that I. I want more episodes because I'm like, oh. I really want them to, like, dive into what's going on at, like, the Customs House and all that kind of stuff, you know? Yeah. [00:20:47] Speaker D: I almost, like, a prequel of, like, Grant's White House. Right. Because it was, like, so deeply terrible. [00:20:55] Speaker A: Yeah. Like, I don't think people know that. They don't. [00:20:59] Speaker D: Because he somehow, like, Portugal has escaped the. [00:21:03] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:21:04] Speaker D: The critical consequences of his actions of, like. [00:21:08] Speaker A: Right. [00:21:08] Speaker D: Because I think he's. He's been painted as this, like, dummy who just was like, oh, he's a general. Didn't really want to be president. I'll just be here. All you guys can just do whatever you want while I, like, sit in this office. And so he gets, like, a pass of, like, oh, no. It was the people around him that were super corrupt. [00:21:23] Speaker A: And I was like, that's the same thing. [00:21:26] Speaker D: It's the same thing. He put those people there. [00:21:28] Speaker A: Right. Like, they didn't appear. [00:21:30] Speaker D: They didn't just like, yeah. [00:21:32] Speaker A: Anyway, missions to these people. [00:21:34] Speaker D: I think it would be interesting, like. [00:21:36] Speaker C: Almost Arrested for after his presidency. Wasn't he for, like, being reckless with a horse, racing down the street, almost killing people drunk? Wasn't he almost arrested and should have been. But they're like, okay. They represent. He was the former president, so we can't. You shouldn't. [00:21:55] Speaker D: You know. [00:21:56] Speaker A: You know, but it's. [00:21:57] Speaker D: Yeah. If they would do a prequel, I would freaking love it. Because then I really think you could trace it. Right. I don't know. Something too. Just about that time. What? Tammany hall and those politics just, like, so fascinating to me. [00:22:10] Speaker A: Even though so relevant. You know, I think that's so relevant. [00:22:13] Speaker D: There's. There was a line in it that I actually meant to send you and I didn't. And it was something. It was after Conkling, you know, whatever that dope gets, like, essentially kicks himself out of office. And they. Someone said something and he's like, oh, you know, something about, like, the corrupt things and the thing being gone or something about people like that. And he responded of like, oh, like, there'll be another one just like him. Or something to that effect. [00:22:39] Speaker A: I was like, oh, there will be. [00:22:42] Speaker D: Like, he's obviously not the. I don't know. There's just. Garfield had said it to somebody. I forget either Blaine or his. One of his aides or something. But it was just as like. You're like, yeah. Like, this makes it seem like this is. Oh, can you believe this time? It's like, can you believe this happened? This is like always this. [00:22:55] Speaker A: There's always this people happening and, like, coming around. [00:22:58] Speaker D: Oh, holding, you know, your administration or whatever, the government in general. But yeah, you guys, you seriously. You have to watch it. [00:23:06] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:23:07] Speaker D: It's so good. [00:23:08] Speaker A: It's just by lightning. Just get it. It's on Netflix. You just. You gotta watch it. You're gonna. You're gonna have a good time. You're going to watch some great performances and you're gonna learn some things. [00:23:20] Speaker D: Yeah. Let me just tell you all the people who are in it really quick. [00:23:22] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:23:23] Speaker D: This will, if. If we haven't already sold you, right. Matthew McFadden. So people love him. He's having a moment. He's great. Michael Shannon, who freaking crushes it. Also. [00:23:34] Speaker A: Bradley Whitford. [00:23:35] Speaker D: Bradley Whitford, who is obviously perfect human baby child. [00:23:39] Speaker A: So mad to be there the whole time. [00:23:41] Speaker D: Always the best person. [00:23:43] Speaker A: Oh, I love him. [00:23:43] Speaker D: Anytime he's on screen, I'm like, yes, yes. Shea Wiggum, who is impeccable. Nick Offerman, who does such a, like, endearing job as Chester Arthur. You guys, like, you hate him at one point where you're like, this motherfucker. Like, what is he doing? But you also love him because he is just such a dope. [00:24:01] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:24:03] Speaker D: And then Betty Gilpin, who is. Yeah. [00:24:08] Speaker A: I mean, we say more need we say. [00:24:10] Speaker D: You don't even need to say. You already know. Anytime she shows up, she's another one. Anytime she shows up, anything, I'm like, oh, well, this girl's about to be the best person in the scene. When she slaps chest. Oh, she gets. [00:24:19] Speaker A: Oh. [00:24:24] Speaker D: It'S really good. This is our endorsement. Five stars. [00:24:29] Speaker A: All the stars. Watch Death by Lightning on Netflix or steal it, whatever. But, you know, watch it and talk to your friends who are in the, like, academy or whatever for the Emmys. Like, hey, for your consideration. [00:24:41] Speaker D: For your consideration. Have you watched everybody in this miniseries about this obscure president that no one cares about? [00:24:51] Speaker A: Other thing. Oh, yeah, you got me to listen to a podcast called Unicorn Girl, which I've wanted. I mean, you told me about this months ago, but it was, like, exclusive to Apple for. [00:25:03] Speaker D: For a little bit, I guess. [00:25:04] Speaker A: A little bit. And then when I. I looked the other day before we came back from Portugal, and I was like, let's. Let's see if it's on there. And it was. If you have listened to Scamanda or watched Scamanda because it was an ABC miniseries as well, you are familiar with this sort of Christian grifter, archetype girl, boss, you know, moms who do it all and, you know, then something goes amiss, and they use that in their grift and whatnot. I. I mean, Scamanda seemed like it was like, peak. Like, oh, boy. That's how far you can go with something like this. And then Unicorn Girl says, hold my beer. [00:25:54] Speaker D: Yeah. She's like, oh, please. You're gonna scam people because of your fake cancer. My girl got to dream big. You got to dream big if you want that cheddar, as they say. I don't know who says that, but. So. [00:26:11] Speaker A: This starts out, like, kind of a similar vibe. You know, these. It starts with, like, a group for. What's the author? [00:26:19] Speaker D: Jen Hatmaker. [00:26:21] Speaker A: Yes, Jen Hatmaker. She creates, like, a private Facebook group for these women to read her book and then become like the street team for it to use very 90s and ought to term for this. And this group, they become, like, really good friends. There's 500 people in this group, and they. It starts to go beyond just, like, talking about the book and all of this stuff, and they become, like, really close to one another. And it becomes a place where people talk about their problems and their triumphs and all these things. And Jen Hatmaker ends up, like, inviting them all to her home for, like a celebratory party thing because they helped the book become like a bestseller instantly. And in this group and at that get together, there is this one woman named Candace Rodriguez Ramirez Rivera. Rivera. It's like, starts with an R. Candice Rivera, who comes and sort of like steals the show. And in part because she comes wearing a unicorn mask. [00:27:33] Speaker D: Like the full headed ones, right? Like the rubber ones that cover your head, not just like cover your eyes, like, full. And she, like, wore it the whole time, they said. So it's like, oh, and the girls, I talked to her, so many, like, it was a bold choice because it's like now no one can forget. Like, oh, yeah, remember the girl with the unicorn mask? It's like now everybody's remembering her. [00:27:51] Speaker A: Yeah. It's such an interesting, like, out the gate, like a marketing tactic, right? Like, she's peacocking, if you will, to use. Is it Neil Strauss or whatever, the pickup artist guy? Like, you know, she's making herself. So she's like, unforgettable or whatever. She gets the opposite of peacocking. But anyways, she becomes like kind of the center of this group in many ways on this Facebook. And she starts talking about her husband and the problems that she's having with her husband. Right. Basically sort of insinuating that he's, like, abusive and things like that, and that she catches him cheating and, you know, yada, yada, yada. And this starts, like, really cementing her as someone that, like, people are really, like, rooting for and trying to support and things like that in the group. [00:28:42] Speaker C: She always. Is that why she wears the mask? [00:28:44] Speaker A: So she doesn't. It's just for the party. [00:28:46] Speaker D: So it's just for the party. And then it just like, who knows why they named the whole podcast that Corey and I were kind of talking about this before. It kind of becomes like, yeah, for, like, who she tries to, like, be right, like, who she puts herself out there as this, like, I'm this like one of a kind person. You've never met someone like me, you know. But yeah, she does kind of become the, like, cornerstone of this group. And then you're everyone's. It's like, it's. I remember in the first few episodes, you listen to it, you're kind of like, I'm not quite sure what this girl's angle is. Like, she kind of like, yeah, Sounds like she's a shitty husband, but she's got two great kids. Like, she seems like. But she seems, like, weirdly upbeat about it. Right. Like, even when she's explaining it, she never seems, like, that upset. [00:29:24] Speaker A: Yeah. She's not down. [00:29:25] Speaker D: You know, she's asking them for anything. So I kept like, okay, she's trying to scam all these ladies in this Facebook group. [00:29:29] Speaker A: And she, like, literally started to go fund me. [00:29:31] Speaker D: Like, yeah, she literally doesn't do any of that. And so you're like, what's your deal? My God. And it's like. It's like episodes until you realize it's like she was working little ones that weren't clear at the time. Right. They come out kind of later in the podcast. [00:29:45] Speaker A: But, yeah, and it's like there's, like, things that happen where it's like she befriends someone, and then she convinces that person's husband that, like, she's having affairs. And then, like, she. [00:29:58] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:29:59] Speaker A: Which she isn't. You know, and there's no reason for her to go behind her friend's back and do this. But then she, you know, she's saying. Says she's a nurse, and people are like, okay, like, some. She says this to some people, but she doesn't tell other people this. And then some people she tells she's a surgeon. And, like, it's these little. She's not telling everyone the same story. There's these, like, little bits of things. And you're like, okay, again, so it's not like Scamanda in that, like. And then she's using this to straight scam money. So what is her angle? And then it's like episode four, where they suddenly start talking about guns. [00:30:43] Speaker D: Well, it's just. It just escalates so quickly. Right? So it's like, yeah, the first two episodes, like, nothing, Nothing. And then all of a sudden, she, like, creates this nonprofit to help kids, you know, women trafficked victims. And then immediately I was like, okay, here it is. Here's the scam. Somehow she's going to scam this. Which I was like, also, bold move, bud. Like, that's what you're going to use. Like, but also something that is, like a big kind of cultural. There's a point there when everybody was talking about this, right? [00:31:14] Speaker A: Definitely. [00:31:15] Speaker D: So you. Yeah, you kind of watch her, and she's just sort of like, local. She's, like, from Utah. So you're kind of like, how much trafficking is going on in Utah? I mean, I don't know, maybe a Lot. And so it's. [00:31:25] Speaker A: It. [00:31:26] Speaker D: Because it's just wild. [00:31:27] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:31:28] Speaker D: And then like, literally the next episode, she's like, now I have a duffel bag full of guns. We're going to go to Afghanistan and like, save a bunch of people. And you're like, wait, what? I thought you're helping. [00:31:35] Speaker A: Hold on. [00:31:35] Speaker D: And it's like all of a sudden this, like, takes this like, crazy turn and you're like, what's it to me was one of the most crazy things because I just remember thinking like, okay, I see what her scam is. And then I was like, right, no, you don't. And then like, even in within that, I'm like, you have to be making. Getting something out of this. What are you getting out of this? And it wasn't until like two episodes later where then like, they kind of explain what she essentially got out of that, you know. Or you also see, like, it's also these little. We talked about it a lot. [00:32:04] Speaker A: Right. [00:32:05] Speaker D: There's that. That moment where she like, essentially kind of bullies her friends into like taking like boudoir photo shoots. [00:32:13] Speaker A: Yep. [00:32:13] Speaker D: But oddly has like, underwear that fit. [00:32:15] Speaker A: Them where you're like, yeah. Like she'd purchased it for them in advance. [00:32:19] Speaker D: Thought about this. Yeah. And so I remember my coworker and I were talking about it and she was like, what was. And then it's like that. You never hear anything about that. Like, what happened to those photos? What is she. I was kept thinking, okay, yeah, because. [00:32:29] Speaker A: She doesn't seem to like, use them. [00:32:32] Speaker D: And I was like. And then. But when you start to see when they. When you. It's like it kind of. By the end you notice it's like half of it is just a power trip. She just wants to see who she can get control over. So she's like, want to get control over these, like, kind of buttoned up ladies. Let me see if I can get. Take pictures of them in their underwear. Like, yeah, this lady who's been sheltered her whole life and hasn't really had a job, I'm going to get her a job. I'm going to see how much I can make her do for me without paying her. Right. Or it's like, it's like, who can I get to do stuff for me? And whether or not it plays out, like, who cares? And like, hopefully I'll get some money out of it at some point whenever, you know, I'll get for donations. [00:33:05] Speaker A: But that's so secondary. That's definitely not the point. [00:33:09] Speaker D: So much of it was her Just trying to have power over people. And I was like, thank God this woman wasn't organized enough to start a cult. [00:33:16] Speaker A: I don't know if that's the term. [00:33:18] Speaker D: But she, like, wasn't though, because she was sort of like all over the place. Right. She was like, always trying to do, like, something else. And I'm like, good thing she didn't like, I don't know, watch a Jim Jones documentary or something, right? [00:33:28] Speaker A: Yeah, well, just throw that on the pile. You know, Problem on our hands. She wasn't a, well, wellness influencer or anything like that, you know. [00:33:35] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:33:36] Speaker A: But there are like real people who she potentially, like, stranded who thought they were gonna get her, get them out of Afghanistan and stuff like that. Like, she just didn't come. She stayed in. [00:33:51] Speaker D: Abu Dhabi. [00:33:52] Speaker A: Abu Dhabi. Then, like, didn't come to get these people. [00:33:57] Speaker D: Yeah. And it's just crazy to think, like, she takes a scam international, right where. And then she also goes to another place where she essentially is like, oh, we're like, help save like, children that are orphans. And it's like, what are you. Like, people are counting on you. And it's like that to me was hard, like. And I felt that like that assistant girl she had who's like, getting emails from their contact that was like, supposed to be saving this group of people, like, essentially refugees from Afghanistan. And you're like, it kind of sort of sounds like you left those people to die. And she could not care less. Like, absolutely could not, couldn't. Just couldn't. She cares the less out of everybody, but has this, like this. I don't know, the way she talks, it's like, oh, my gosh, like, it's just this beautiful thing that we're doing. [00:34:43] Speaker A: You know, and she comes back and says, oh, we saved a thousand people. And like, just lies. [00:34:49] Speaker D: She's able to, like, pull the wool over people and keep them separate somehow in a way that is like, mind boggling. Right at the end when all of those ladies come together and you hear all of the different stories and there's like, it. Anyway, it was just like, I, like, didn't have words for it because you're like, I'm trying to understand why. [00:35:14] Speaker A: Right, right. [00:35:15] Speaker D: Because it's like, sure, there was some on. There definitely was like a monetary aspect to it because you. There definitely came apart where you know, she sort of is like burning money basically. [00:35:23] Speaker A: Yeah. She steals from her son. Like, she just. Just absolutely no conscience about anything at all. Anything. And then, oh, when she finally, at the end of this when she finally gets caught and is going to go to jail for what she's done after, you know, the judgment, she then, like, spends was like, 40 minutes on the stand. Like, you know, they give people the opportunity to, like, speak, but most people don't. Right. Because you're gonna appeal later. You don't want, like, to stuff on the record this. Yeah, Right. Like, you just want to shut up. And so she goes up and she's basically like, here's how. Actually, I'm the best person on the planet and everyone has wronged me in every way. And it's, you know, and the judge is just like, okay, well, seeing as clearly you have no remorse and you're a danger to everyone. [00:36:23] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:36:23] Speaker A: Here is the maximum sentence you can possibly get. [00:36:26] Speaker D: Here's my question for you, Corey. Serious question. Do you think if the judge had been a man, that would have gone differently, or do you think he also would have seen. Because it was interesting. Right. Then when they talk about the fact that anytime. Because she went after all of the victims, gave their statements, and she's like, furiously writing. [00:36:44] Speaker A: Right. And then she has responding point by point to everything. [00:36:48] Speaker D: Yeah. Essentially a rebuttal. Which I was like, that's not what this is for. Right. [00:36:52] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:36:52] Speaker D: The fact that. And I just, like, the judge, I remember like, being kind of like pins and needles because, you know, we've listened to enough crime podcasts. This could really go either way. [00:37:01] Speaker A: Right. [00:37:01] Speaker D: But the fact that she kind of is like, okay, wow, thanks. You've actually made this a lot easier because I can see you give no shits about anything that you're a sociopath. [00:37:10] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:37:10] Speaker D: But I wonder, because she's, like, crying and I'm like, I just wonder if it had been a man, if he would have been like, oh, this like, poor, sweet woman, like, she feels so bad. You know, we're like, takes kind of. [00:37:22] Speaker A: Another woman to be like, she seems like she's remorseful. [00:37:25] Speaker C: Did she represent herself? Is it. [00:37:27] Speaker A: She didn't represent herself. No. [00:37:29] Speaker D: Represent herself. She just was. It was like a sentencing hearing. And so the victims get to get up to get their victim statement, and then she got to give a statement, which she. [00:37:36] Speaker A: Which I'm sure her lawyer said, do not do this. [00:37:38] Speaker D: Please don't do this. Yeah. And she can't be. [00:37:40] Speaker A: Or someone. [00:37:41] Speaker D: She can't be tamed. Let me tell you. She's going to do whatever she wants. [00:37:45] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:37:46] Speaker D: I just wonder. I don't know. I always thought I. You know, where it's like. I mean, do you think, like, Most of the women. And she had very few men in her circle. [00:37:54] Speaker A: Right. [00:37:55] Speaker D: Like, it was mostly, like, essentially vulnerable women that she sort of. [00:38:00] Speaker A: Yeah. It's like, the one guy who was involved in this, like, partway through was like, nope, absolutely not. [00:38:05] Speaker C: Right. [00:38:05] Speaker D: Like, they tended to see through the kind of quicker. Obviously, that, like, not bounty hunter, but who. [00:38:11] Speaker A: And I think, like, they were like, the women she was really emotionally manipulative with. Whereas, like, her relationship with, like, the guy whose organization he, like, who hired her for his organization was like, much more strictly business. And he was like, this is getting insane. And was like, right. [00:38:29] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:38:30] Speaker A: Like, so there was no, we're not. [00:38:31] Speaker D: Here to be friends. Right. [00:38:33] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:38:33] Speaker D: Well, that's the thing. Right? And then anybody she brought in was someone she'd befriend first and then be like, oh, you need a job. Like, come work for me. Like, she's being this benevolent person where you're like, if she just hired someone off the street, they would not have allowed her not to pay them for. [00:38:45] Speaker A: Right. [00:38:46] Speaker D: Six. Whatever long. It was. Right. That girl wasn't getting paid. And so. But she was. Right. So it just the. I just remember, like, rooting for that assistant who was like, just got. I feel like, the worst of it. Yeah. To Lee, I was like. Kept yelling at her. [00:39:01] Speaker A: I'm like, just. [00:39:02] Speaker D: You can. Like, there was a moment, right. Like, during that Department of Homeland Security sting, which I feel like, you guys. She got a contract with the actual Department of Homeland Security. So if you ever think, like, wow, the government's really serious and they take things seriously and they do a lot of vetting, and, like, they. They act like they've got their shit together. I would like you to know that they hired a con woman to run, essentially, a fake sting. [00:39:31] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:39:32] Speaker D: On Super Bowl Sunday. [00:39:34] Speaker A: And then just we're like, yeah, well, we're not in the habit of vetting the organizations. [00:39:38] Speaker D: Yes. And then they admit to not doing any vetting. And I was like, what? Made me drive to Long beach and meet with an immigrations officer who are all carrying guns in order to get global entry. [00:39:52] Speaker A: Right. And yes. [00:39:54] Speaker D: Woman doesn't get any kind of background check. [00:39:58] Speaker A: So crazy. [00:39:59] Speaker D: I was furious. But that part made me somehow the most angry. [00:40:04] Speaker A: Right? [00:40:05] Speaker D: Yeah, it didn't really, but I was angry about a lot of it. But it. It's interesting. And the way they do the podcast, right. Is like, you hear one version, you hear Candace's version essentially, until, like, the very end, and then you start to get, like, what everybody else heard from Candace where It's like this whole story. It's like the big crux of her story also is that she had lost twin girls. [00:40:25] Speaker A: Oh, God. Yeah. [00:40:26] Speaker D: And it's this story that she tells, kind of like the same story the whole time. And then there's a point, kind of like not quite at the very end, where like, a detail switches. And I thought to myself, oh, that wasn't right. [00:40:38] Speaker A: That wasn't. [00:40:38] Speaker D: That wasn't what happened. [00:40:39] Speaker A: What happened? [00:40:40] Speaker D: Maybe she just missed. I was like, once again, right, Missing the most obvious point. I'm like, did she miss? Then you realize that she had, like, also lied, and it was like, everything was a lie, right? You're thinking, like, there's got to be some sort of truth in something, right? You thought, okay, she really was a nurse, but she just, like, didn't practice. It's like, no, she wasn't even ever a fucking nurse. [00:41:00] Speaker A: Never was. [00:41:01] Speaker D: It was never this. She was never anything she said. And so it was wild to just watch it all unravel because you're thinking, right, it'd be easier to keep track of your lies if there was some sort of. [00:41:11] Speaker A: Yeah, there's a nugget. [00:41:13] Speaker C: Yeah, she couldn't herself. But she. For. But she. She didn't keep great track of her lies. That's what you're saying. But you believe her because she's telling you. [00:41:22] Speaker D: Well, because she. She kept track of it. And the podcast made it seem like, like, they told one version of events, even though everybody in the story, by the end, you realize they'd all gotten different versions, which you don't realize until the end of, like, they're, like, the. [00:41:34] Speaker A: Most convenient version to the person she's talking to, right? So it's like she's telling people she's in, like, a group for, like, loss of, like, miscarriages, right? And so she's like, oh, I had twins that I miscarried. But then later on, she, like, meets someone who, like, lost adult or not adult, but, like, children. And it becomes, oh, I had twins who were like, four, and they died in a car accident, right? And you're like, what? There were never any twins. They get her husband on the stand or whatever, and he's just like. Like, nothing she has ever said has ever been a real thing. [00:42:12] Speaker D: That guy felt I didn't see. Obviously, you never see him. It's a podcast. But he sounded like one of the most broken. Like, she broke him. [00:42:18] Speaker A: Yeah. Like, she just destroyed this poor guy. [00:42:21] Speaker D: He destroyed him and, like, his kids, right? And that was the hardest Thing for him. He was like, I'm trying for so long. I'm like, she's the mother of my kids. I gotta like give her the benefit of the doubt. But it's like she just sucked him dry. Oh my God. [00:42:37] Speaker A: And that she left their kid on the hook for this money that, you know he's about to turn 18 and that's gonna actually like impact ruin his life. Yeah, yeah. Like so. Yeah. Friends, unicorn girl. We have not given you all the details here. You can go check that out for yourself if you like. But just one of the, like, just the. One of the worst people. [00:43:02] Speaker C: Oh. [00:43:03] Speaker A: That you could possibly fathom. Like there are other people like her, obviously. I think this is like, you know, one of those. [00:43:09] Speaker D: Yes. [00:43:09] Speaker A: Personality disorders or whatever. [00:43:12] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:43:12] Speaker A: But the. Where she took it to like the point of being in other countries. [00:43:20] Speaker D: Yeah. There's a creativity there that honestly, I don't want to say impressive, but it kind of was. [00:43:26] Speaker A: She used her powers for good. [00:43:29] Speaker D: Just imagine what she could have accomplished. [00:43:31] Speaker A: But imagine if she actually saved trafficking victims instead of leaving them in Afghanistan. She had all the connections set up and everything and then just didn't do it. [00:43:39] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:43:40] Speaker A: Like. [00:43:41] Speaker D: But yeah, it just was like every. I just kept thinking like, okay, I see where this story is going. And then at the end of an episode, I'd be like, the is happening. [00:43:49] Speaker A: What? [00:43:50] Speaker D: What's going on? You know what I mean? I felt like I was con. I felt like almost like one of her victims. I'm like, why do I not know what's going on either? [00:43:56] Speaker A: You know, if you can predict what she's doing, you need a therapist. I think that's like. [00:44:01] Speaker D: Cuz you could be the next not good. Yeah. [00:44:05] Speaker A: Bad News Bears. So those are our wrecks and rants for this month's Fan Cave. And on that, I suppose we talk a little bit about Wolf of Snow. Snow Hollow. Like I said, not gonna. Not gonna go super deep with my topic this time. But I did want to talk a little bit about lycanthropy. [00:44:31] Speaker D: Oh, lycanthropy. [00:44:33] Speaker A: Lycanthropy. [00:44:34] Speaker D: I loved. I loved imagining you like putting it into. Remember those like fake search engines they use? Like in whatever supernatural. It was like. [00:44:41] Speaker A: Right. Like so weird or freaky language or something. [00:44:45] Speaker D: I do remember what it would say. [00:44:46] Speaker A: Right. [00:44:46] Speaker D: And then they like type it really slow too. [00:44:48] Speaker A: It's like. [00:44:48] Speaker D: Yeah, you can tell. They're like trying to sound it out like. And then like the top result, there's only like three results. [00:44:55] Speaker A: Yeah. And it's exactly what they need in. [00:44:57] Speaker D: The first is exactly what they need. [00:44:59] Speaker A: Yeah. Because I switched my browser to Vivaldi like, a month or two ago because it's a no AI browser, and they also have their own search engine, and that doesn't use AI. And it's. Let me see what it's called, because it sounds. It's called Start page. [00:45:17] Speaker D: Oh, my God. So you literally. Does it have those, like, gray buttons? Remember the gray buttons? Cord. You have to type HTTP, colon, backslash, WW before you go to a website. [00:45:29] Speaker A: I still do do that sometime. Yeah. So I literally typed lycanthropy into Start page and was like, oh, man. Yeah, I am living my best ought life right now. But I also have to say that trying to research this is actually quite funny, because when you look up lycanthropy, which, if you don't know, is the, like, scientific term for werewolfism, like, so funny. [00:45:57] Speaker D: Honestly, did you look up who came up with that? [00:45:59] Speaker A: That term? I think it's, like, from, like, Latin or whatever. [00:46:02] Speaker D: No, I know, but it's like, someone had to. [00:46:04] Speaker A: Oh, someone initially. [00:46:05] Speaker D: Is it, like, from olden times or did, like, someone. [00:46:08] Speaker A: Well, I'll get into that. [00:46:09] Speaker D: Okay. That's part of my question. [00:46:11] Speaker A: Yes, I got a lot of questions. [00:46:13] Speaker D: About lycanthropy, believe it or not. [00:46:15] Speaker A: Imagine. [00:46:15] Speaker D: But if you have any questions about werewolf romance, I can answer those for you. [00:46:19] Speaker C: Yes, yes, I'll have my own questions as well. [00:46:21] Speaker A: Okay. All right. But. So I was, like, looking this up, but there's a weird amount of the results that, like, treat it like it's real. [00:46:33] Speaker D: Sure. Well, Corey, we don't know if it's real. We've already established this. [00:46:37] Speaker A: Not as in, like, clinical, like anthropy, which I'll get into, but like, people actually physically turning into wolves. And I think this is in part because a lot of people who write about, like, anthropy are either, like, super into fantasy or into some kind of, like, TTRPG in which werewolves are involved. [00:46:54] Speaker D: Sure. Yeah. [00:46:55] Speaker A: So they're writing to an audience that understands that they are discussing lycanthropy within the world of whatever they're talking about. But if you just go to the website out of nowhere, feels like, yeah. [00:47:04] Speaker D: You'Re like, they're crazy pants. Yeah. [00:47:06] Speaker A: Why are you. [00:47:07] Speaker D: Why are you so earnest about this? [00:47:09] Speaker A: You know, here's some misconceptions about werewolves, but really they're like this. And you're like, I. How can there be misconceptions? [00:47:18] Speaker D: Oh, my God. I Love people sometimes, you guys, the Internet is a cesspool a lot of the times, but then there's places like this where people found their people who. They can talk about lycanthropy unironically. [00:47:33] Speaker A: Yes, Right, let's. We are all on the same page about this. [00:47:37] Speaker D: But didn't. [00:47:37] Speaker C: Didn't know. Medieval times, people believed that, you know, things would happen, people turn into beasts and. And we know that they didn't turn into literal beasts, but they went crazy from bacteria in barley and eating. [00:47:52] Speaker A: Oh, you're talking about. [00:47:54] Speaker D: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Or get poisoning. Poison. [00:47:59] Speaker C: So wouldn't. Wouldn't that have, like. Like started the idea that. [00:48:02] Speaker A: We'll get there. Don't. You know, we're. Let me, Let me just get here. [00:48:06] Speaker D: First and then we'll get a little bit. Yeah, sorry. [00:48:09] Speaker A: Because as it turns out, humans have been obsessed with wolves for millennia. [00:48:16] Speaker D: Right. They started Rome, so we all know. [00:48:19] Speaker A: They started Rome, obviously. Yes, obviously. They're important symbolically in cultures all over the world. And as an article on the website Archaeo Travelers put it, quote, animals of Paleo Arctic origin. The wolf migrated with primitive man from Eurasia to North America, crossing during the various glaciations, the Bering Strait, and following Indo Aryan lineages in their diffusion in Europe and in the subcontinent. Indian. In other words, wolves started in the Arctic but ended up migrating all over the place like they are in most countries at this point, or at least on most continents at this point. And they did this often in tandem with humans, which makes sense because we know that humans started domesticating wolves, which became our dogs, you know, over 10,000 years ago. Yeah, so. So, for example, in Romania, the article explains, the wolf was seen as a psychopomp, which is a delightful word that refers to a creature that guides you into the afterlife. Kind of fun, right? [00:49:30] Speaker D: That's nice. [00:49:31] Speaker A: However, in many cultures, the wolf was considered a rival to humans. They're obviously better hunters than we are, but we're going for the same food. They're fast, they have built in weapons, and they have super good night vision. And thus humans wanted to imitate them. And this is how we start to see early ideas of lycanthropy coming into play. It doesn't start with crazy people and ergot poisoning and things like that. In nomadic Paleolithic cultures, there were often shamanic rituals that. That often involved humans transforming themselves into totemic animals, one of which was the wolf. If a person were to let the wolf inhabit them, they could take on its powers. All of those cool things that they can do when they hunt and, and they can also take on its appearance in these rituals. [00:50:30] Speaker C: Showing up to rituals with a wolf's mask on, I mean, to draw attention. [00:50:39] Speaker A: There you go. In Central Asia, for example, a mushroom called Amanita mascaria could be consumed during a ritual that would draw the spirit of the wolf into one's body. Once this had occurred, the wolf host would then wear the wolf's skin, taking on its appearance. We have cave drawings of this dating back to 13,000 BC. [00:51:04] Speaker D: Because why? The Earth isn't even that old, Corey. [00:51:07] Speaker A: How can that be? That is three times as old as the Earth is. [00:51:12] Speaker D: I'm just kidding, you guys. I know the earth is settled, but. [00:51:16] Speaker A: That is like, that's insane to me that like we have drawings from that long ago. But also that like amongst those drawings there's a cave in France that has like. [00:51:25] Speaker D: Guys, is there also a vampire fighting the werewolf on the cave or. [00:51:29] Speaker A: It didn't my research, but little dude. [00:51:32] Speaker C: Holding a little silver cross maybe, right? Oh, that's how we fight bad. [00:51:37] Speaker A: Yeah. But clinical lycanthropy is a sort of sub syndrome of zoanthropy, which is a delusional belief that one is turning into an animal. Yeah. And like the episode of Psych, there's a Criminal Minds that also has this. It's been seen literally all over the world. Although I was reading an article PubMed publications, like an actual medical journal and they said it's been seen on all continents. And I have major questions about the instances of zoanthropy in Antarctica. [00:52:14] Speaker D: Must be because. Well, they've seen eight below. [00:52:17] Speaker A: Oh, well, there you go. Hadn't thought about that. So. Nailed it. [00:52:26] Speaker D: They. [00:52:26] Speaker A: They're actually. [00:52:27] Speaker D: They're stuck, I would guess because they're like isolated down there, Right? [00:52:31] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:52:31] Speaker D: Like have to become. [00:52:32] Speaker A: People have had all kinds of things. I did quickly try to Google it. I did not see anything about zoanthropy in Antarctica. But you know, I don't know. I don't want to call them liars. [00:52:43] Speaker D: Yeah. But maybe they just meant all of the ones that have people. [00:52:47] Speaker A: Yeah, that's probably what they were going for. But yeah, people have been concerned they're becoming all kinds of animals like lions and tigers. There was at least one case, a woman who thought she was a chicken. Or in that one Jamie Dornan movie, a honeybee, for example. You guys remember that wild. [00:53:07] Speaker D: Oh, I didn't see that. [00:53:09] Speaker A: I never watched it. But there was a lot of like, talk about it. Because it has the most insane twist ever. It's like this. It's him and Emily. What's the one married to John Krasinski? [00:53:22] Speaker C: Blunt. [00:53:23] Speaker D: Emily Blunt. [00:53:23] Speaker A: Right. Emily Blunt. Him and Emily Blunt. And this, like, whole movie, it's like in Ireland, I think, and they're like, falling in love or whatever. But he's got some. [00:53:31] Speaker D: I do remember, right? Yeah, Yeah. I do remember him getting a lot of grief because everyone hated his Irish accent. But he's like, I'm from here. What do you mean? You can't hate my Irish. [00:53:40] Speaker A: Literally Irish. [00:53:41] Speaker D: I thought it was really funny and he was, like, really sad about it. [00:53:45] Speaker A: Yeah. But yes, in this movie, the big twist turns out to be that he believes that he's a honeybee form of zoanthropy. So there have been many cases of lycanthropy, specifically. So obviously, again, for thousands and thousands of years, starting with these shamanic rituals where people were taking on and embodying the wolf. Like, obviously in a ritual, you can't. You know, it's not like, real per se, but it's like a belief, if you will. Like, this is how we get ourselves ready for the hunt and things like that. But when people have various forms of psychosis, obviously they take on that kind of thing. Or if you're using drugs like the mushrooms involved in that one particular ritual. So there have been some instances of people who thought that they were werewolves for real. One of these. And I'm just kind of like, scrolling through, like, Wikipedia about this guy. There's plenty of other sources. I was like, I don't feel like writing them out. But there was a man by the name of Manuel Blanco Romasanta who was actually Spain's first recorded serial killer. And this was. Yeah. Which is. It's late. Ish. It was in 1853 that he was busted for this. I'm like, I guess people just got away with murder more. [00:55:17] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:55:17] Speaker A: Before that, there hadn't really looked. [00:55:19] Speaker D: They didn't have a lot of organized. [00:55:22] Speaker A: Yeah. Like, there was no FBI. Right. No one's like, he was tracking that down. [00:55:27] Speaker D: No one's, like, making a detailed list of crimes in every province in Spain. Kingdom in Spain. [00:55:33] Speaker A: Yeah. There's no database of this. So the first known serial killer in Spain who admitted to 13 murders, but he said, hey, man, it's not my fault because I was cursed to turn into a wolf. Yeah. And this right. He became known as the Werewolf of Iris. [00:55:58] Speaker D: Honestly, call her name. [00:56:01] Speaker A: Also perfect horror name. He Was also known as the tallow man. Do you want to guess why he's called that? [00:56:10] Speaker D: No. [00:56:11] Speaker A: Do you want to guess? [00:56:12] Speaker D: Is that how he killed people? [00:56:13] Speaker A: Oh, you read it already over your shoulder. You gotta stop reading over my shoulder. You're cheating. This is. This is not how my stories work. [00:56:20] Speaker D: Is that how he killed? Did he boil them in it? [00:56:23] Speaker A: Did he eat people? No. One more go. No. [00:56:29] Speaker D: I don't know. What else do you do with it? [00:56:31] Speaker C: Maybe he made money from the. [00:56:34] Speaker A: Made money from this. He allegedly tricked women and children into traveling with him. Then he killed them. He removed their fat or tallow, and then he made it into soap. Oh, yeah. Tallow man. [00:56:54] Speaker C: Like in Fight Club. [00:56:55] Speaker D: Sorry. I was, like, for some reason was thinking he. That he was really a wolf. And I was like, was he, like, killing other wolves? [00:57:02] Speaker A: And, like, look how easy it is to be convinced. [00:57:07] Speaker D: Yeah, I was like, yeah, he got. All I took was you told me. And I was like, yeah, must be true. Big if true. And I believe it. [00:57:14] Speaker A: And he actually. He used this as a defense, obviously, which initially didn't work. He was found guilty. But Queen Isabella was like, nah, I mean, valid. Valid point. [00:57:32] Speaker D: And Isabella. [00:57:33] Speaker A: Yeah, that. [00:57:33] Speaker D: Isabella. [00:57:35] Speaker A: And was like, yeah, you know what? Actually, it couldn't have been that one. It was Isabella II. Too late. [00:57:42] Speaker D: Oh, yeah. What year were we? [00:57:43] Speaker A: 1853. This was 1853. [00:57:44] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:57:45] Speaker A: Isabella II. She was like, like, nope, fair enough. And she commuted his sentence. [00:57:54] Speaker D: True believer. [00:57:55] Speaker A: True believer. You know, I mean, as we've talked about in, like, when we were talking about the others and kind of spiritualism and stuff like that, like, when you get to the mid-1800s, people start getting, like, really credulous about the supernatural. They start being like, yeah, no, that definitely adds up. Up. [00:58:14] Speaker D: Yeah, that tracks. They've all had experiences too, right? You know? Yeah. [00:58:21] Speaker A: Now, in a more modern example of this, in 2019. Yeah, right. We are. We're not talking historical stuff here. A man named Austin Haruf claimed to be half dog, half man. [00:58:40] Speaker D: Oh, like dog man. [00:58:42] Speaker A: Like dog man. [00:58:43] Speaker D: Like the cartoon dog. [00:58:46] Speaker A: And he killed Michelle, Michonne and John Stevens in their garage and attacked their neighbor. He was found biting Steven's face while making growling noises as he was doing it. Says, quote, the fact that Mr. Haruf persisted in biting the male victim in the presence of police officers and in spite of threats of being shot, being tased, and receiving multiple kicks to the head, suggests that Mr. Haruf was actively psychotic. And so he had bipolar disorder, acute manic episodes with psychotic features. And yeah, was found eating the face of one of his victims. I did see later on this article is before this happened, I think. But he, he did get. Not acquitted, but like, basically he was sent to a mental institution instead of reason of. [00:59:42] Speaker D: By insanity. Guilty, not guilty. [00:59:44] Speaker A: Not guilty by reason of insanity. [00:59:47] Speaker D: Come on, get your SVU lingo out, Corey. [00:59:49] Speaker A: I know, right? [00:59:49] Speaker D: You know what? [00:59:50] Speaker A: I'm clearly out of pack, out of practice of watching. [00:59:53] Speaker D: But I mean, you're staying at a hotel. Surely it's on. [00:59:57] Speaker A: But yes, two instances, you know, 200 years or 150 years apart of guys getting off for the fact that they were werewolves. [01:00:09] Speaker C: I mean, for all. I mean, from a legal standpoint, they were werewolves. [01:00:15] Speaker A: Right. [01:00:16] Speaker C: They got away with their murders because they were werewolves. [01:00:20] Speaker A: Exactly. [01:00:21] Speaker C: So at least in the. In their minds, yes. [01:00:24] Speaker A: If you're going to try to commit the perfect murder, maybe you just have to be very convincing in looking like a werewolf. [01:00:33] Speaker C: You have to believe. [01:00:34] Speaker D: There you go. [01:00:35] Speaker A: You gotta believe. You gotta do what you gotta believe, as these people did. So the sort of story at the center of the Wolf of Snow Hollow reflects a reality that has existed for thousands of years. And when we talk, I mean, I think that's interesting to think about that. Like, obviously werewolves are not a real thing, but the idea that people believe in them. When you had people for all this time literally wearing werewolves, like, you know, gutting werewolves or whatever and wearing them and then going and doing murders and violent things and stuff like that, or even just going hunting, Right. Like if you were, like, if you went out into the woods and you saw some. Someone standing like a person but in a wolf, you'd be like the. Is that thing, right? [01:01:29] Speaker D: What's going on out here? All of the furry convention in the. [01:01:33] Speaker A: Forest, all of these legends are based off the fact that there have been humans for millennia who have been wearing wolf flesh and pretending to be wolves. [01:01:44] Speaker C: I think there's a. There's a healthy percentage of the population that likes to believe that the mind, that there's mysteries of the mind. And in the right mindset, perhaps a person could like the movie split or anything else, do supernatural things. [01:01:58] Speaker A: Right? Yeah. [01:01:59] Speaker C: Or maybe, maybe empowered by a certain chemical or drug could become a beast. Maybe there's something we could unlock about. We don't understand everything about, about this, you know, the, the, the. This body. [01:02:13] Speaker A: Right. [01:02:14] Speaker C: You know, perhaps there's something primal that we can unleash through, you know, you know, make some super soldiers in the process perhaps, you know, or telekinetic powers, you know, you know, I. I still believe. You know, I want to believe. No, I would use my powers for good, guys. I would use my. My werewolf powers for good. [01:02:34] Speaker D: Oh, good. [01:02:35] Speaker C: When it happens. [01:02:36] Speaker A: When it happens naturally. No, that is a good point though. You know, that. That I think does contribute to the sort of. Of belief in these sort of things is this idea that, yeah, maybe there's something split is a good example. Right. Like, in that not only does he just have, like, multiple personalities, but he can physically change his height and his musculature and things like that. Like, you know, by the power of whatever he has unlocked with this old other personality that becomes this beast and. Yeah, like telekinesis. This kind of things that, like, MK Ultra was trying to do with people. Like, there is this. We have, I think, at the core of a lot of our, like, supernatural ideas, this thing where we go, like, well, we don't understand the world, which is a valid thought. You know, like, we don't. We don't know everything. There are things that we have not figured out. So, you know, then that leads to. Well, then who's to say that there isn't some way to unlock these abilities or whatever, that we're not all secret X Men. [01:03:43] Speaker C: Corey believes in lycanthropy. [01:03:46] Speaker A: In other words, werewolves are real. [01:03:49] Speaker D: Werewolves are real. You heard it here first. [01:04:00] Speaker A: For those of you who are not obsessives, that's a vague reference to Ghostbusters. So, Kristen, about your experience with the Wolf of Snow Hollow, which I'm. This is a. You know, sometimes I think I know exactly how you're going to feel about something, and other times I have zero clue. So I'm very excited to hear how. [01:04:22] Speaker D: Which one is this? Do you think you know or you don't know? [01:04:24] Speaker A: I don't know. I have no idea. Yeah. So first things first. What do you think? Opening insights. [01:04:34] Speaker D: Yeah. Didn't like it. Didn't have a great time. I was deeply not into it the whole time, which I feel like hasn't happened yet. Honestly, like, this is true. One where I just was like, I cannot. I don't care about any of these people. I honestly don't know if it was because John was so deeply unlikable. [01:04:56] Speaker A: Right. [01:04:57] Speaker D: Like, I just, like, hate you. And I wish Ricky Lindholm was the main character in this. [01:05:03] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, she's great. [01:05:04] Speaker D: And so because of that, I felt like I wasn't sure if I missed a bunch of clues throughout the movie, because I'm not. I'm not sure how much I was paying attention. [01:05:13] Speaker A: Okay, fair enough. Yeah. It's not. Didn't connect. [01:05:16] Speaker D: I just wasn't hitting. I mean, honestly, he was it for me. I was like, I hate this guy. I hate him. [01:05:21] Speaker A: Yeah, it's very hard if you like loathe the person and he's the center of the movie and he's like the. [01:05:28] Speaker D: Center of the story. And like he was, was like not only like obnoxious, but it felt like at the beginning I was like, okay, seems like a normal cop like his sad because he's of his dad. So I'm like trying to figure out what, where this like sort of like manicness was coming from. And I was like, I don't ever quite get it. Like. [01:05:44] Speaker A: Right. [01:05:44] Speaker D: I know he obviously struggled with alcohol. [01:05:47] Speaker A: Right. [01:05:47] Speaker D: Which they talk about. I don't know, they. And maybe it's just like the stress of the case, but I'm just gonna like, I don't understand why you like go off and then like the music to me really. I know it was, was. I'm sure that was some sort of choice that they were trying to make. And I don't know what the choice was trying to do, but I took me right out of it. Every time they started playing that jaunty music, I was like, is this movie not serious or is it like I couldn't figure it out because they felt like the crimes were really serious. Right. It's like it wasn't like, I don't know, it just felt like vibe wise. I was like very confused and so it was hard where I'm like, you have these like, like very horrible crimes against women. Like they're being brutally like, yeah, brutally murdered. And then like a child was murdered in a terrible way. [01:06:36] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:06:37] Speaker D: And then like immediately you're just like doing this weird, like this guy's having this like breakdown, mental breakdown at the same time. And so you're like. I was like, so is it trying to be like now we're trying to decide like, is he, is it because he's having a breakdown that people think it's a wolf? Is this all in his head? You know what I mean? The whole time I'm like, like, is this real? Like, is anything that's happening happening? Like what's going on? And so I just, because of that I was like bored I guess. Well, and then like I said, I kind of checked out a little bit. So when I came back in and they were like finding thread, I'm like, why do they all think this is a clue, you know? Like, she find. He gets the. She gets the, like, stitcher. Take her at her. And I was like. And then when he goes to the tall guy's house, and I was like, okay, well, clearly it wasn't the guy that. That they found. He clearly couldn't have done it because we'd never. Like, there was no big confrontation. Right. So obviously, yeah, you knew that wasn't it. So when they go to this guy and it was like, oh, hey, I'm like, returning evidence. I'm like, evidence. Have we met this guy before? And I was like, oh, my God, what was I doing? Did I go to the bathroom? And then I was trying to think. I'm like. I mean, now I kind of remember him. He was just, like, blurry in the background and always hunched over. Right. Was that who he was? [01:07:44] Speaker A: He's. Well, we have a couple of scenes with him in it. Yeah, He's. You know, including the thing about the wife, where earlier in the movie, he's driving through one of the crime scenes, and he's upset that they're examining the crime scene, and he starts saying, oh, my wife is gonna kill me. Because that was him. Yeah, that was him. And then. So when he's like, oh, I don't have a wife. [01:08:08] Speaker D: He didn't seem that tall. Maybe he was hunched over there, too. Oh, I thought he was standing. [01:08:13] Speaker A: No, he's in a truck, so you can't tell. [01:08:15] Speaker D: I didn't. When he showed up, I was like, like, who is this man? And why are we acting like we've met him before? I did not recognize him at all. I thought it was that guy. But then I was like, oh, no, that guy had a wife. So I was like, I can't be that guy. [01:08:30] Speaker C: You believed it, too. [01:08:32] Speaker A: He. [01:08:32] Speaker C: He told you he had a wife? [01:08:34] Speaker A: Sinker got me. [01:08:36] Speaker D: He got me, man. I would not make a good detective. So, yeah, I just. Just did it in, I guess, because the beginning, it was, like, written and directed and starring Jim Cummings. I'm like, is he famous? Is he a famous person? [01:08:51] Speaker A: If you're like me and a huge Jim Cummings fan girl, yes. But not like, well, because then I. [01:08:55] Speaker D: Spent the first little bit thinking it was Winnie the Pooh. Until then, like, like, when's he gonna show up? Well, right. And so then it was like, this feels like a weird movie that he's gonna be in. But then when the main character was seemingly this younger man, I was like, like, maybe he's Jim Cummings. It's obviously not Robert Forster, and it's obviously Not Ricky Lindholm. [01:09:15] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting. This is. This is definitely. I think. Let's see, looking through. We have done horror comedy before, but we've never done, like, black comedy before. [01:09:28] Speaker D: Oh, is that what this was supposed. I thought maybe it was supposed to be, but I guess I didn't think it was very funny. I don't know if you're supposed to be thinking, were you supposed to think it was fun? [01:09:37] Speaker A: And that's kind of how, like, that's the sort of hit or miss, miss thing about black comedy, because the comedy is in that it's not funny and that it shouldn't be funny. [01:09:47] Speaker D: Yes. Man, I'm really. Everyone's gonna think I'm really stupid on this podcast. [01:09:50] Speaker A: This is. This is what we. [01:09:52] Speaker D: I guess never watched a black comedy before. [01:09:56] Speaker A: Right. [01:09:57] Speaker D: Could you name another one? Is there another famous one that maybe. [01:09:59] Speaker A: I have you say, like, Fargo is maybe a black comedy. [01:10:02] Speaker C: It has comedic elements, but it's about murders. There are. There are. Are, you know, hijinks. And in a lot of, like. [01:10:08] Speaker A: Yeah, like, there's goofy things about the characterization of the people in it and these. Well, as dealing with, like, serious stuff. [01:10:18] Speaker C: People look at, like, a movie, like, parasite or something and see Parasite. There's a lot of comedic elements in that, but there's horrific things that happen. You can have comedy and there's. I think there's more acceptance for it. You can have a comedic character even in something where something terrible is happening. [01:10:38] Speaker A: Yeah, right. [01:10:39] Speaker D: Okay. I guess maybe the problem was I didn't think what was supposed to be fun. Like I said, I guess it wasn't hitting my funny bone. I suppose I feel like I've laughed at things that are, like, violent. But, I mean, I guess I've liked. I don't know, I just. [01:10:53] Speaker A: Right. Because there's. There's a. I didn't get it and like, flat comedy. Right. [01:10:58] Speaker D: And there is clearly. [01:11:00] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. And it's not going to hit it for everyone. [01:11:02] Speaker C: Jim Cummings character is very angry. And so, Kristen, maybe you were. Were feeling like Jim Cummings character. You were very angry at the film. [01:11:13] Speaker D: At the film. I was literally only angry at him. [01:11:15] Speaker C: Oh, yep. [01:11:16] Speaker A: Yes. [01:11:17] Speaker C: He's angry at everybody. [01:11:18] Speaker D: He was, like, so mean to everybody. You know, where I was like, very short temper. I don't know. Yeah. [01:11:23] Speaker A: And that's a lot of, like, the stuff that he makes. Often he plays characters that are extremely dislikable. You know, he's not the guy who puts himself in a movie as, like, the hero of it. He tends to write, like, very dark stuff where he is the, like, absolute asshole in it. [01:11:43] Speaker D: It's just sometimes it's hard. Yeah. And sometimes you can rally. [01:11:46] Speaker A: Right. [01:11:46] Speaker D: You're like, okay, you're the worst. But you're like, I can see there's something that you're, like, at least trying to do here. [01:11:52] Speaker A: Right. [01:11:53] Speaker D: But I was like. [01:11:53] Speaker A: And the point in this is that, no, he's not really, like, redeemable. [01:11:56] Speaker D: There's nothing. [01:11:58] Speaker A: No. [01:11:58] Speaker D: And there's like, the only redeemable character is freaking Ricky Lindholm. [01:12:02] Speaker A: Right. Yeah. [01:12:03] Speaker D: Well. And I thought Chavez. He was kind of harsh on Chavez, who seemed, like, just trying to do his job, man. [01:12:09] Speaker A: Right. [01:12:09] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. [01:12:10] Speaker D: You know, like, everybody who was just. I don't know. I was just. So. [01:12:14] Speaker A: I mean, you're getting him. You are right about this character. That's 100%. [01:12:18] Speaker D: No. Well, then I guess you're supposed to. [01:12:20] Speaker A: Feel about him, you know. [01:12:21] Speaker D: Well, then I guess I did it, but I didn't. Yeah. [01:12:25] Speaker A: It's that the humor elements of that don't get. Because he's dealing, you know, it's. He's dealing with a character that is mentally ill. Yeah. And, you know, he's. He's got addiction. But that's just one level. Yeah. [01:12:43] Speaker D: That felt like a. Well, that was the thing, too. I thought. I'm like, oh, this is. His whole thing is going to be. He's, like this, like, terrible alcoholic. Which I'm like. But it's. You were sort of the worst before you started drinking again. [01:12:52] Speaker A: It's not the problem. It's, you know, like, you're the problem. His issues. But he's got anger issues that transcend that. And he's, you know, he's too stressed out and too type A while also being, you know, he can't put his attention where it needs to go. He doesn't know how to prioritize. You know, he doesn't know how to father or anything like that. [01:13:18] Speaker C: He's a great dad, but he. [01:13:19] Speaker A: He. [01:13:20] Speaker C: He wants to be. [01:13:21] Speaker A: He wants to be. He just has, like, no concept. [01:13:23] Speaker C: He wants to be sheriff, and he feels right and no one believes him. And he gets so frustrated and angry because he has to be. Right. [01:13:34] Speaker A: Right. And he can't communicate. He gets too ragey to do so. [01:13:38] Speaker D: That's true. And I guess it's hard when you. Yeah. And it's like, it did feel more, too, like a quintessential cop. Right. Who's like this white, great, angry man who's, like, gonna be in charge And I was like, oh, this guy. [01:13:53] Speaker A: Like, yeah. And again, you're getting it right. That's exactly what he's saying, you know. Well, you know, it's an ACAB movie, you know, he's. He's not on the side of the cops here. He's not a good cop. You know, the. The movie is not supposed to be like, oh, cops are heroes, you know, and, yeah, he's like this because he just has such a hard, stressful job. [01:14:15] Speaker D: Yeah, I was gonna say, I didn't think that came. That definitely wasn't something. I was taken away from it, obviously, because there even was a point where they. They made a comment that I was like, oh, that was pretty good job, where it was something about, like, how they. The only way they'll catch him is if they get lucky. That's how we always. It's like, we only get lucky. We only catch him when we get lucky. Basic. Or something to that effect. I was like, yeah, so true, though. Like, he's gonna have to fuck up, up, and then you guys will catch him, you know? [01:14:40] Speaker A: Totally. And so, like, in this, you know, the. The humor comes from how extreme he is, you know, and the way that he does, you know, like when he goes to, like, beat up the. The boyfriend who abandoned his daughter, Right. Which he did, too. And so he's taking it out on this guy. He goes in there, you know, clumsily pulls this guy out of bed. And then when the mom realizes, she's like, now, wait a minute, we. What did you do? And you hear her, like, you know, hitting him as he goes. And he's dumping milk on himself in the kitchen. And, like, the humor comes from, like, how extreme and ridiculous that situation is when really. That's super dark. Everything about that is, like, not really funny, but it is, you know, how extreme these moments are. [01:15:25] Speaker C: We're seeing a downward spiral for him at that point in all areas. You know, he's. [01:15:31] Speaker D: He's. [01:15:31] Speaker C: He's not able to solve the murders. There's more murders. Is not able to. His relationship with his daughter is the worst. His father and his health conditions, and no one. Yeah. No one respects him, you know, and he's. And Ricky's. Character is sympathetic to that. She sees that he really, really wants to be the sheriff and be the hero, and he's just not likable. People don't. [01:15:58] Speaker A: Don't. [01:15:58] Speaker C: People don't trust or respect him. [01:16:01] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:16:01] Speaker D: Yeah. [01:16:02] Speaker C: And he makes so many mistakes, which you mean, you're like, yeah, he's. He's Succumbing to alcoholism again, like hard. Like hard, hard, hard. So, yeah, it's interesting that they're able to put those scenes with him because you do feel some. I feel sympathetic towards him because I see he, he would like to be better, but he's making so many mistakes. He wants to be a protector, but he. Yeah, he's, you know, his daughter calls him out on that. You know, she's in. Then there's humor there too because you see that she is his daughter. [01:16:34] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:16:35] Speaker C: And, and you. I like their, I do like their relationship despite, you know, him being a real, real screw up. But yeah, there's, there's parts I like and it does remind me a bit of like Blood Simple Cohen type movie and tone and lighting and maybe he's very influenced by that. [01:16:54] Speaker A: Yeah, it's definitely Cohen's influence in there. [01:16:58] Speaker C: I appreciate like those indie movies that don't seem, you know, like they, they don't cast like the best actors all the time or they, you know, set wise, they're simple but their characters, the characters are, are memorable. And I like, I like that part of it. [01:17:13] Speaker A: Yeah, I think it's kind of fun to just have like introduced you now to like an entirely different genre of them, which, I don't know, we'll, we'll go back and try more of them and see if like thinking of it this way changes anything about it. Because there is something to. I don't usually like things with like super dislikable characters, but if you know what you're getting into is like something that is kind of in an extremely dark way, making light. I don't even know if that's the right word, but finding the humor in just like, like the worst things that can happen to people. I think there's like, there's things about it that are like really resonant, you know, and about what real families are like and things like that that, you know, when people have traumatic familial experiences and stuff like that, that there's like a catharsis in finding like the funny elements of like, yeah, dad was an alcoholic and he did weird shit. And when you retell the story to other people, you find like the funny element of that, you know, like he, when you retell the story of him driving his car into a pole like he did in there, you make that funny in the retelling because otherwise that's like horrifying that he did that. You know, like you find that, that little bit of how can I tell this story so that it's funny and not. Not traumatic. And I think that's kind of what this tries to do. While it's certainly dealing with the horrors of all this stuff head on, also being like. But in the retelling, where do you find the absurdity? I think that's what this kind of goes for is, like, absurdity. Just what are the. The elements of this personality that he has that are so absurd? Picking a fight on his way out of getting kicked out of the AA meeting. You know, like, things like that that are just like, come on, bro. [01:19:18] Speaker C: And then. Yeah. Then the case is solved without him, and he has to. He is at the. He is defeated. He's absolutely defeated and humiliated on all levels. Family work. Yeah. Literally spat upon by. By. By people who just hate him. And you're like, well, he is at the lowest point he'll ever get. And end of movie. [01:19:44] Speaker A: End of movie. Yeah. So I can definitely see why it wouldn't hit. You know, I think movies like this are always polarizing as opposed to, like, a horror comedy like Tucker and Dale. It's like, we don't like that. Do you not, like, fun? Like. Yeah, you know, like, this isn't fun, per se. You know, that's not what it's doing. So either you're gonna be like, the. Or like. Nah, I get it. And it's perfectly logical. Like it. So any, like, thoughts or scenes or anything you wanted to pick out before getting into the breakdown? [01:20:29] Speaker C: Nah. [01:20:32] Speaker A: He'S trying to read over my shoulder again. [01:20:34] Speaker D: Cute. We're gonna go over all of these things. [01:20:36] Speaker A: We're gonna go through these. You don't have to cheat. [01:20:39] Speaker C: Six bullet points. All right, I'm gonna ace this. [01:20:44] Speaker A: Poster versus movie. What is scarier? [01:20:47] Speaker D: Yeah, I didn't think the movie was scary. The poster I thought was cool. I did like the way the poster was with him, like, at the top kind of walking. So I thought that was cool. Cool. [01:20:56] Speaker C: Nice. [01:20:56] Speaker A: Hey, we'll take. [01:20:57] Speaker D: Cool. [01:20:58] Speaker A: Biggest jump scare. [01:20:59] Speaker D: I did not jump at all. And it wasn't. Wasn't a lot of jump scares. [01:21:03] Speaker A: No, it's not really that kind of. [01:21:05] Speaker D: It's not that type of movie. [01:21:07] Speaker A: Yeah, not particularly. And anytime you had to close your eyes. [01:21:13] Speaker D: Yeah, I actually didn't have to. I thought I was going to maybe, but, like, even with the crime scene, like, they're showing the crime scene photos, like, you literally can't even tell what this is a picture of. So it's like. [01:21:22] Speaker C: Like. [01:21:23] Speaker D: Because I was like, oh, maybe I shouldn't. I thought I was gonna have to close my eyes. But I'm like. But it's like they're just so, like. Yeah. [01:21:28] Speaker A: Torn apart. [01:21:29] Speaker D: Yeah. Wood chippered essentially that you're like, okay. I don't even know what I'm looking at, you know. [01:21:34] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And you. Oh, go ahead. [01:21:38] Speaker C: I found that I was, I was surprised. Just surprised. [01:21:40] Speaker A: Like, oh. [01:21:41] Speaker C: I made an audible. [01:21:42] Speaker A: Oh. [01:21:43] Speaker C: When you see the wolf for the first time. [01:21:46] Speaker A: Oh. Like when he's. Yeah. [01:21:47] Speaker C: Like standing there on a car and you're like, yeah. [01:21:50] Speaker A: Oh, oh, there's a, There's a. Wolves are real. [01:21:54] Speaker C: Yeah, I've seen it. [01:21:56] Speaker A: Yeah, right. Like, then you're like, oh, okay, so there is a werewolf. [01:22:00] Speaker C: So why is Jim Cummings so adamant that there's no wolf there? It's not a wolf, it's a man. It's a guy. It's a man. It's a man. Even his, his squad is like, so we're looking for this werewolf that's killing people. It's like, it's man. Yeah, it's a man. [01:22:14] Speaker A: Which then sews doubt in us as the viewer as to. Yeah. Like, is he. He. Is he wrong then, you know, you have to question him. Like I saw it. So. [01:22:24] Speaker C: So that for me, that's a jump scare. Like, oh, full on werewolf. Just standing there. [01:22:29] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:22:30] Speaker C: About to kill somebody. [01:22:31] Speaker A: Yeah. So you kind of get jump scared too, by the. If you're. I don't know, depending on how wrapped you are in it with. When he stands up to his full height and then like slams the door or whatever. [01:22:44] Speaker C: That's a good, That's a good physical like. Yeah. Tension thing. Yeah. [01:22:49] Speaker A: Yeah. But no, it's not like a generally a jump scare kind of flick. [01:22:53] Speaker D: Yeah. Type of film. Yeah. Thing where he's like got a refrigerator then he closes it. Yeah, One of those, you know. [01:23:01] Speaker A: Yep. [01:23:03] Speaker C: Missed the opportunity there. [01:23:05] Speaker D: I know it, don't I? [01:23:07] Speaker A: Biggest surprise. [01:23:08] Speaker D: Yeah, biggest surprise. But it was a taxidermist the whole time because I literally was like a new. [01:23:12] Speaker A: Yeah. Because you didn't know he was the same guy that you'd seen. [01:23:14] Speaker D: Surely they would have introduced us. Like it should be so somebody we've already met. [01:23:20] Speaker A: Yeah, they do. It does a good job of kind of keeping him. Like you do see him, but he is peripheral enough a character that you're not really thinking about him. So there's enough to like. Oh, okay. Yeah, no, I see, I see what's going on. What they're being. [01:23:38] Speaker C: Showing us who it is. [01:23:39] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:23:39] Speaker C: And it's giving us even an excuse. You Know, it's drugs. That dude. That dude right there on the drugs. [01:23:48] Speaker D: Yeah. Yep. [01:23:51] Speaker A: Let's see. [01:23:51] Speaker D: Best side character, definitely Julia. She was the real hero of the story. That's true. [01:23:58] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:23:58] Speaker D: But also had to do, like, you know, her elephant's share of emotional labor to, like, help this, like, terrible man, like, succeed. And I kind of was like, julia, don't worry about him. [01:24:13] Speaker A: Right. [01:24:13] Speaker D: Yeah, be fine. You know. But I did love her dearly because I thought she was. Because there was a point where you thought she was going to be bumbling too, you know, because she tends to play, like, comedic characters. [01:24:27] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:24:27] Speaker D: But then when she ended up being, like, the only person who, like, knew how to do their job, I was like, what a queen. [01:24:32] Speaker A: So, yeah, I was the only competent one. And he does that a lot, too, with his. With his movies having the women kind of be the, you know, ultimately the hero. [01:24:42] Speaker D: Yeah. [01:24:43] Speaker A: Ultimately being the one who knows what. What is going on. And men being kind of the worst. So, yeah, it's definitely intentional that she's. She's the only one you really root for in this. Although, you know, I think Robert Forster, he's. His character is likable enough. [01:25:02] Speaker D: Yeah, he's just, like, sad. It's just more sad he's not making it. [01:25:06] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:25:06] Speaker C: He's so unsure of himself. [01:25:08] Speaker A: Right. [01:25:08] Speaker C: But he has to be strong for, you know, he has the responsibility, but he's so unsure of himself. I think that's. Yeah, that's. That's remarkable. It's. This is his last. [01:25:19] Speaker A: Last role. [01:25:20] Speaker C: His last role. [01:25:22] Speaker A: Yeah. It was very, very fitting. Final role for him. Sure. [01:25:26] Speaker D: Yeah. [01:25:26] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:25:26] Speaker D: I was like. At the end, I was like, this movie killed Robert. [01:25:30] Speaker A: Robert Forster. [01:25:31] Speaker D: Oh, God. That was his real death scene. He really died. [01:25:34] Speaker A: Yeah. They had to change it because he just died. [01:25:37] Speaker D: Middle. [01:25:37] Speaker A: That's not what happened. Best line. [01:25:40] Speaker D: Yeah, best line was really. And it's hard because it's not even really the line. It's the look that happens after the line. And John's character says, do you think women have had to deal with this shit since the Middle Ages? And she gives him this withering glare and he's like. Immediately was like, that was dumb. I shouldn't have said that. [01:26:02] Speaker A: You know what I mean? [01:26:03] Speaker D: And so there's just. Just. That, to me, is probably one of my favorite moments of the whole movie, actually, was that scene where she's just. And like. I mean, I could. You felt it through the screen of, like, him being like, oh, God, why did I say that? You know, like this immediate, like, Such a fucking idiot. So I did really like that. That scene in particular was like, really good. [01:26:23] Speaker A: Love it. Yeah. Phenomenal. So with that one under our belt, you gave us some superlatives. [01:26:34] Speaker D: I did get some superlatives, yeah. Yes. [01:26:36] Speaker A: A favorite movie of the year, the scariest movie of the year, and a least favorite movie of the year, which is wonderful. I'm excited about this. So let us. Well, I feel like let's go. Least favorite first. [01:26:50] Speaker D: You know, coming in under the Wire for least favorite of the year. Wolf of Snow Hollow, believe it or not. [01:26:59] Speaker A: Were there others that you didn't like that we want? No, literally the only one. [01:27:03] Speaker D: I literally was going through the list. I was like, no, I really liked each of the. Like there's obviously like trick or treat, right? [01:27:09] Speaker A: That you were like, yeah, too scary. [01:27:11] Speaker D: It was too scary. But I at least was like, very in it. Yeah, I was in it. [01:27:16] Speaker A: Right? This is the only one that you, like, logged out. [01:27:18] Speaker D: This was the only one where I was like, checked out. I feel like. [01:27:21] Speaker A: Okay, so. All right, so least favorite, end of the year. There it is. [01:27:26] Speaker D: There it is. [01:27:28] Speaker A: Scariest movie of the year. [01:27:29] Speaker D: Yes, Scariest movies. Obviously. Trick or treat. I don't know why we're even dating. This. I feel crazy though, because I feel like no one agrees with me that this movie was that scary. [01:27:38] Speaker A: Who else have you talked to about it? [01:27:40] Speaker D: I used some people at work. I was like, oh, trick or treating. Like, oh, that was so great. I was like, no, it's so scary. And they're like. I was like, no, it was really scary and they just did not agree with me. And I was like. I was very scared. Like, we. I think I told you, I think we'd watch an episode of Psychiatric. You did say that and immediately regretted it. [01:28:00] Speaker A: So you and Brienne were on the same level. You're not crazy. [01:28:02] Speaker D: It wasn't as bad as it. I wasn't as scary as it. But it was the scariest one because we watched a lot. A good amount of kind of horror comedies, I would say this year. [01:28:11] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. A little lighter. Lighter there. This year. [01:28:15] Speaker D: Yes. [01:28:15] Speaker A: Looking over it. Favorite of the year. [01:28:20] Speaker D: So you guys, my favorite of the year is a. A four way tie. Well, technically two way tie plus two runner ups. [01:28:27] Speaker A: Okay. [01:28:28] Speaker D: So my two way tie was Tucker and Dale because I just loved my angel babies. [01:28:35] Speaker A: Yes. [01:28:36] Speaker D: But I also really had a good time with Nightmare on Elm Street. [01:28:40] Speaker A: Mark is going to be so happy. This came in. [01:28:43] Speaker D: It was my first classic one to watch. [01:28:45] Speaker A: Yes. [01:28:45] Speaker D: And I felt like it really lived up, like to a classicness, right. Like, I felt like watching it. I'm like, well, I feel like I'm getting a lot of stuff out of this from other movies that I've watched. And so it felt very formative in a way, I guess. [01:29:00] Speaker A: Totally. [01:29:01] Speaker D: So I really liked it. And there's scenes that I think of a lot. Like, you know, I think I always think of that scene where he's got the TV on his stomach and it's that huge TV and it's so stupid. I'm like, why are you watching tv? Like that, right? And then he like falls into the volcano, obviously, is like the best. And then also just the scene where you first kind of meet Freddy when he's like running and he's got those crazy arms, like, oh, you're hilarious. [01:29:26] Speaker A: Like, what are you doing? What a goober. [01:29:29] Speaker D: And so I think I was surprised, like, there was a right. Is it because it's such a classic, like, oh, this is going to be like, so scary. I was like, oh, my God, this is classic. Like, what is happening? So anyway. But it was a tie between those two, I think, because I just loved Tucker Dale so much, you guys. I just loved it so much. [01:29:46] Speaker A: And who were our runners up? [01:29:48] Speaker D: My runners ups were Cabin in the woods and Ready or not because great choices. I rewatched Ready or Not. My friend was visiting and she'd never seen. I was like, oh, you have to watch it. It's so good. And on the rewatch, I'm like, yeah, this movie was so good. Like that, like, creepy song that played the House is so cool. I don't know, just everything about it was really cool. [01:30:11] Speaker A: Cool. And then. [01:30:13] Speaker D: Yeah, it's just so funny and fun. I just had such a great time watching it. And that was when I also actually re watched during October. [01:30:22] Speaker A: Nice. [01:30:23] Speaker D: Because it was. If they were streaming, I'd re watched them. [01:30:26] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's validating. I like it. I'm glad that these played out so well. Real good. Real good. Year of movies, I think. Overall, I really do. [01:30:37] Speaker D: Like, as I was looking back on, like I'd forgotten almost about 10 Cloverfield Lane, I was like, oh, my God. I remember, like, I was so stressed out during that movie, right? [01:30:46] Speaker A: Yes. [01:30:46] Speaker D: So I almost put Battle Royale in there just because I also had such a fun time watching that movie. And it was my. Our first. My first foreign one, which was. Yeah. [01:30:58] Speaker A: So, yeah, I was so glad that that one, like, hit with you too, because that was definitely another one. I was like, not sure which I Love that one. [01:31:06] Speaker D: Was super fun. So, yeah, as I was looking over the list, Mike, actually, we had a good year. I feel like a lot of these were bangers. [01:31:12] Speaker A: Yeah. Of course. Ghost Ship. Naturally. Ghost Ship, Cream of the Crop. [01:31:19] Speaker D: And then the Ring. I forgot we'd watched the Ring. Yeah, yeah. Which also was like, just remember. I. I was like, it's like quintessential early 2000. You know, like the year it was, whatever year it was was now. Yeah, I guess it was late 90s or something. [01:31:33] Speaker A: I think it's like 2002. [01:31:35] Speaker D: Yeah. So it's like that. I just felt like, oh, yeah, I am in high school watching this. Just felt transported back in time. The fashion was on point. I mean, everything about it was fun. [01:31:49] Speaker A: So if you missed any of those friends, go back through. We have 12 episodes for you over the course of this year and. And 12 from last year. We're at what? We're at 22 now. This is the 22nd. [01:32:01] Speaker D: We didn't do 12. Right. We started in March. [01:32:03] Speaker A: Yeah, we started in March. [01:32:05] Speaker D: So I think it's like 10. [01:32:06] Speaker A: Yeah, the 22nd episode. [01:32:08] Speaker D: Sorry, 20. This is our 22nd episode. [01:32:10] Speaker A: Yes. [01:32:11] Speaker D: Happy anniversary. [01:32:12] Speaker A: Do you want to know what 23 is going to be? [01:32:14] Speaker D: Oh, my God. Yes. I have my new doc ready for. [01:32:20] Speaker A: Oh, how wonderful. Well, I figured let's. Let's start the year off on another classic. You know, let's just. Let's take it back to some of the OG Ish right out the gate. I think that's a good way to start the year off fresh. Okay. And so the movie that we'll be watching. Do you want to guess? Kyo. Do you know, do you want to guess what I'm going to read? [01:32:42] Speaker C: Anything? Oh, a horror film. [01:32:45] Speaker A: Classic horror film. Start out the year that. [01:32:49] Speaker C: That Kristen hasn't seen, like Rosemary's Baby. [01:32:52] Speaker A: It's not Rosemary Baby. I'm not gonna have her watch a Polanski movie. [01:32:55] Speaker C: Okay. Oh, yeah. But along those lines. [01:33:00] Speaker A: Well, it's gonna be. Poltergeist, one of my favorites from master of horror, Mr. Toby Hooper. Toby Hooper. Hooper. Oh, man. It is a movie that many will say as children scarred them. Has onic scenes in it. Extremely quotable scenes. It has Craig T. Nelson. [01:33:33] Speaker D: I do love Craig T. Nelson. Coach. [01:33:34] Speaker A: Who doesn't love Craig T. Nelson? Yeah, right. Has some of the best parents in a horror movie, I think, just in terms of relationship with one another. [01:33:44] Speaker D: Oh, they're actually like good parents. [01:33:46] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:33:46] Speaker D: Instead of like ones that don't care. [01:33:48] Speaker A: Especially for like the 80s instead of. [01:33:50] Speaker D: Like, all of the parents in it who were like, right, go yourselves. What do I care? We will bully a child. That's how terrible we are. [01:33:59] Speaker A: No, they definitely care about their children. [01:34:02] Speaker D: Oh, that's nice. [01:34:03] Speaker A: Poltergeist. And I will listen. I'll tell you out the gate that next month, I will tell you about the Poltergeist curse. Ooh. [01:34:14] Speaker D: Okay. [01:34:17] Speaker A: Going on with that there film. So I'm excited about that. Friends, thank you for joining us. And don't forget to watch Poltergeist if it's been a minute since you have watched it or just refresh it because it's a really good movie and maybe. [01:34:31] Speaker D: It'S your first time. [01:34:32] Speaker A: Maybe it's your first time you got to watch Poltergeist with us. Hopefully Kristen's gonna like it. I don't know, though. We'll see. [01:34:41] Speaker D: Time. That's what people call me. Kristen. Wild card Lyra, I think. [01:34:48] Speaker C: Yes, yes. I think there. I think she'll be very, very, you know, drawn in. [01:34:57] Speaker A: Yes. It's a good one to, you know, invite Bri over and watch it in the dark instead of in the middle of the day, you know, in the dark. It's a good. It's got a great spooky vibe. [01:35:06] Speaker C: It's like watching the shining in the daytime. You don't want to do that. [01:35:09] Speaker A: I mean, Shining is kind of a daytime movie in it. Like, the whole thing is pretty bright. [01:35:13] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:35:13] Speaker D: It's maybe the wrong night is at the end. [01:35:16] Speaker C: It's like watching. Watching Midsummer in the daytime. [01:35:20] Speaker A: Who would do such a thing to. [01:35:22] Speaker C: Watch it in Dark. In the dark. [01:35:24] Speaker A: Yeah. But yes, I recommend watching this one. Okay. So with that, friends, happy holidays and New Year, medically, Gimaka and that as well. We will see you next month. We love you. [01:35:44] Speaker D: See you next year, everybody. [01:35:45] Speaker A: See you next year. [01:35:49] Speaker D: Or don't.